nishing the account for the last year, there ought not to be any delay in making up those for the years 1817, 1819, which ought to be produced immediately. There were many other items of charge in these accounts that required particular notice, but he had stated sufficient, he thought, to satisfy the committee that the accounts were made up in a most irregular and vague manner, that they afforded little information, and, for the ensuing year, ought to be made out in a very different manner. Putting together the different sums which he conceived ought not to be sanctioned by the committee, for the reasons already given by him, he should propose to reduce the vote by the sum of 36,612.

in the army extraordinaries? No less than 2.846/. was charged for the private secretaries of the governors of the West-India islands, Cape Breton, &c, The right hon. the paymaster general had stated, last year, when he (Mr. H) had objected to these charges appearing in the army extraordinaries, that it would be better to place them with the other civil establishments of those islands, and he hoped that would be done another year, if it should be possible to abolish these offices. Every governor bad military staff with him; and ifcivil secretaries were requisite, the islands ought to provide them. He had understood that sir Charles Brisbane, the [new governor of New South Wales, had applied, before his departure, to be allowed a private secretary, but had been refused. Mr. Goulburn denied that this governHe did not blame the government for the ment paid the expenses of the foreign refusal, as it evinced a disposition on their commissioners. With regard to the item part to keep down the expenses of that charged on account of Buonaparte, the colony But it was satisfactory to his house of that individual had been commind that, if sir C. Brisbane could carry plained of as being so utterly out of reon the duty of governor of New South pair, as to admit the rain. As it was Wales without a civil secretary, that found that the old building was not worth every one of the governors who were al- repairing, it was decided that a new relowed them in this account might be saved. sidence should be built. The sum charged He should, therefore, propose to de- in the item adverted to was for the addiduct the whole expense of 2,8461. for the tional furniture supplied on this occasion. salaries of these secretaries from the pre- With respect to the salaries of the prisent vote. He next observed a charge of vate secretaries of civil governors, he 2,612. for articles for the household of agreed that it was absurd to charge them Buonaparte at St. Helena: he had been in the army extraordinaries, but it informed that the commissioners deputed was a practice which had long prevailed, by the sovereigns of Austria, Russia, &c. and was found convenient, because the to remain at St. Helena were paid by this secretaries were paid by the paymastercountry all their expenses; he could not general of the army. As to the refusal believe that, and mentioned it only to of a private secretary to the governor of enable the noble lord to contradict it if it New South Wales, he was inclined to bewas not true: he would not say more on lieve that no such application as that this subject, as it was his intention to sub-stated by the hon. gentleman was made mit a motion to the House on the expenditure at St. Helena. He had before stated, that, by an account which had been carefully made up, and which he held in his hand, the detention of Napoleon had cost, in civil, military, and naval establishments, upwards of 415,000l. a year, a sum altogether out of the question for this country to continue to expend, and he would add that it was unnecessary: he had been in the island, and, if he might judge from its natural strength and situation, the total expense ought not to exceed a quarter of that large sum. These accounts bad never been laid before parliament, and he was surprised at the delay in submitting those the House had ordered on his moIf there were any difficulty in fur

by sir C. Brisbane. He did, indeed, apply for a brigade-major, and the application was refused, because government saw no reason for adding another staff-officer to the establishment of New South Wales.

The Marquis of Londonderry observed, that there was no ground whatever for supposing that the expenses of the foreign commissioners at St. Helena were not paid by their own governments. At this moment, he believed, two of them had been withdrawn.

Lord Palmerston said, that the reason of the charge for the inspectors of army clothing appearing in the extraordinaries was, that it had been the intention of government to dispense with them, and the charge had consequently been omitted

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gin the estimates for two years. It was afterwards found, however, that their services were indispensable, and they were reinstated. With regard to the garrison at Heligoland, the hon. gentleman had stated that it consisted only of 50 men in time of war, and was increased to 100 since the peace. Now, in 1812, a year of war, the garrison consisted of 479 men; and in 1821 of only 67.

ought to be the Ordnance, and to which the storekeeper-general'sdepartment'ought to be transferred, which would savela considerable sum to the public. He had no doubt that if a strict economy was pursued, 20 or 30,000 a-year might be saved in those departments, as they could save, on his plan, the expenses of the additional offices and all the rents. The hon. gentleman entered into a variety of details to prove the expediency of the proposed transfer, and of making the

country as in the colonies. ( bobozansk Mr. Arbuthnot defended the existing arrangements, and contended that considerable reductions had been effecteda

Mr. Bennet objected to the amount of the army extraordinaries as exorbitant. He did not see why the debt to Mr. Com-Ordnance the great dépôt, as well in this missary Mackenzie should be put among them. He thought the expenses of the colonies altogether too great, especially those of the Cape of Good Hope and New South Wales. He could not agree to vote the sum demanded for conveying convicts to the latter place, more particularly as the solicitor-general had said, in 1821, what he (Mr. B.) had been telling the House during the last five years, that it was not a place of punishment. He would propose a reduction of 100,000l. on the sum total of the accounts now presented, if his hon. friend would consent to withdraw his amendment.

Mr. Hume considered this vote one of great importance, both by its magnitude and from the peculiar nature of the department. The bon. member for Abingdon (Mr. Maberly) had stated the general extravagance of the storekeeper's department but he had not stated half its extent. It had been one of the most profuse and wasteful departments under the present profuse system. He had for successive years endeavoured to convince the House of the necessity of reducing or abolishing it; and, in justice to the hon. secretary (Mr. Arbuthnot), he must state that the necessity had been felt by him and acted upon, as the department of storekeepergeneral had been, in the course of the last year, joined to that of the commissariat under the Treasury, and Mr. Trotter, the storekeeper-general, and several others of the establishment bad been removed on pensions and half-pay. This department was for the purchase of military stores, for their keeping and issue as the services of war required; and, although during the war, the establishment under Mr. Trotter had increased to an uncalledfor extent, he did not include that period in the statements he had prepared and formerly stated of that department. From the peace up to March 1820, the total amount value of stores contracted for by the storekeeper was 312,8844, or rat 69,5197. per annum on the average of the 4 years. There was little doubt that great part of that sum might have been saved if we had not had such a man it its head as Mr. Trotter, as the sale of the greater part of these stores at of the prime cost proved them not to have been required by the public service. The charges for the establishment and contingencies in this department were so high

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might be reduced. When the duties those officers had to perform were considered, he had good authority for stating, that a reduction of one-half might be made in the number and expense of these establishments, and he trusted that that would be done. He had reason to believe, that there were not sufficient checks on the accounts of the commissaries, as many of them had accumulated large fortunes, which the fair emoluments of their office could not have afforded; and he recommended that department to the particular attention of the secretary to the Treasury. With respect to the pension list, he thought many of them objectionable, and that 7 or 10 years employment in a lucrative service ought not to entitle any man to a pension for life. The pension of 1,2002. a year to Mr. Herries as retired commissary-in-chief he thought particularly extravagant. That he should receive 1,500l. as auditor of the civil list, and also the pension of 1,2001. after only a few years service, was a shameful waste of public money. The 1,100l. to Mr. Trotter, late storekeeper-general, he thought much worse, as he had, during the whole of his charge, expended more money on the establishment than any other officer, and was not entitled to any such pension from government. He should certainly vote for reducing that pension and the superfluous establishments, unless assurances were given that a great reduction should be made before next year.

as 131,1644. in 1816; and in the most reduced scale for the year ending the 24th March 1820, it was 52,5781.! a sum so enormous, when compared with the expenses before Mr. Trotter took charge of the department in 1808, that without the official returns it could not have been credited. On the average of 13 years of war prior to 1808, the expense of that department was 19,7174. a year; whilst, since then, it had been so high as that stated for 1816. If the expense of the establishment since the peace was given, it would far exceed the whole value of the stores received, with ample allowance for what might be considered the expense of custody of the old stores. The charges had been indeed enormous. He entirely concurred in the observation, that the charge of these stores might be transferred to the Ordnance storekeepers abroad and at home; and that all the packing should be done by contract, as formerly, when sit was so well and so economically klone, as the report of military commissioners stated. The expense of keeping up the present store-houses was immense, and he hoped the hon. secretary would abolish the whole before the next year. He (Mr. H.) might give the storekeeper's department as an instance of the gross waste that takes place in the government manufactures, in comparison with what can be done by private individuals by open contract. In this case he was ssure cent per cent at the least. With respect to the commissariat charge, in- Mr. Arbuthnot observed, that 800 clerks cluding the charge of the storekeeper's had been dismissed, and that the number department, the sum of 401,5691. exceed now employed were indispensable for the ved the charge in the years 1818 and 1819, purpose of carrying on the business of the which sought not, with the present re- Commissariat office. The experiment of duced prices of every article, to be the a greater reduction had been made in a case; when however we examined the former year, but was of necessity abanparticulars of this charge, an easy solution doned. He defended the pensions which was found. All the establishments were had been granted to Mr. Herries and Mr. larger in proportion; for example, in Trotter, as due to them, and more especi1818, when the war was at its greatest ex-ally to the former, in acknowledgment of tent, the number of commissaries were their great public services. 800; in: this year 231, exclusive of 39 Mr. Bennet considered that the public in the storekeeper's department, at an ex-services of Mr. Herries had been abunpense of 61,0571. for pay alone. In Canada daatly paid, without the pension in quesin 1813 there were 30; in this year 58 tion. commissaries, although there were only 6 British regiments there. This might be taken as an example of the scale on which the other establishments in this department were placed. If his suggestions on the subject of the purchase of provisions under the Victualling Board were acted upon, great part of this establishment

Colonel Davies compared the present estimates with those of 1819, and commented on their excess,. With a view to the reduction of that excess, he moved, as an amendment, to reduce the proposed vote by 4,238l.

The committee divided: For the Amendment, 40; Against it, 89.

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gan, who was both ignorant and poor, was, through his want of acquaintance with the forms of judicial proceedings, adjudged guilty of contempt in not attending to a summons; for that contempt he was sen tenced to receive 36 lashes-fourteen were inflicted, when the unhappy man fainted: a surgeon, who was in attendance, gave it as his opinion that it would be dangerous to proceed further with the punishment. The man brought his action against the judges in the supreme civil court of Newfoundland, and the chief justice of that court declared, that however reprehensible the conduct of the judges was, the court in point of law could not in terfere. There were, he understood, eight or ten of these courts, where naval officers were the judges; they were held on board of ships, and were called floating courts. The mode of proceeding in these floating courts was not regulated by the common law of England, so much as by the discipline and practice of the navy. The system was a bad one, but was, he be lieved, the remains of a system which was still worse. The petitioners prayed that the ancient policy of this kingdom, with respect to her colonies, with respectato the establishment of local legislatures, might be revived in Newfoundland. Int that prayer he entirely concurred. Con sidering the extent and importance of the settlement, its peculiar situation, the num ber of its inhabitants, its local circum stances, and its great distance from the seat of the British government, he knew of no colony which more required the constant vigilance of a local assembly than Newfoundland.

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Sir J. Newport said, he knew many merchants at Newfoundland well qualified to form a local assembly. erau fos

PETITION FROM NEWFOUNDLAND FOR REFORM IN THE COURTS OF JUSTICE.] Sir J. Mackintosh said, he rose to present a petition from the inhabitants of St. John's, Newfoundland, of an important nature. He was satisfied that the British legislature would be disposed to listen to the complaints from any colony, however unimportant. The colony of Newfoundland was not one of those-it was a colony of great extent and importance, with a population of upwards of 100,000 persons. The petition complained of the manner in which justice was administered in certain courts, and of the severe and extraordinary mode of punishment resorted to by those courts in cases of contempt. The petitioners prayed for the redress of this abuse, and Sir I. Coffin said, he was many years ago also for the establishment of a local legis- in Newfoundland, and never saw any law lature in the island. The courts in ques-there but the cat-o'-nine tails. He was tion were called Surrogate courts; the a surrogate himself, but he never ordered judges were principally composed of offi- more than a dozen lashes, cers of the navy, Punishment for contempt was, he admitted, resorted to by courts of justice in England; but he believed the use of the lash in such cases was altogether unknown in this country; it was, however, the ordinary mode of punishment adopted in Newfoundland. In order to put before the House the manner in which that distant, defenceless, and unrepresented island was treated by those Surrogate courts, he would state one instance-a man of the name of Lander

Mr. Goulburn admitted that the mode of administering justice in the colony was one that should not exist. The causes of complaint were almost always! between the merchants and the fishermen, the only two classes in fact in the colony. The government finding it impossible to select justices of the peace likely to act impartially, were obliged to appoint naval officers, who were men of honour and understanding, He did not defend severe punishment in cases of contempt, but he

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