May 9. LIST of the Minority on Sir John Newport's Motion respecting the Commission of Inquiry into the State of English Courts of Justice ................. .......................... 624 of the Majority and also of the Minority on Lord John of the Minority on Mr. Bennet's Complaint respecting the 16. 710 of the Minority on Mr. Hume's Motion for reducing the Soubor 15 the Transactions at the Manchester Meeting............ 845 of the Minority on Mr. Creevey's Motion respecting Ord- 'nance Repairs for the Island of Barbadoes.... --- of the Minority on Mr. Creevey's Motion for reducing the H of the Minority on Mr. Hume's Motion for reducing the 868 ... 878 of the Majority and also of the Minority in the House of Commons on the Forgery Punishment Mitigation Bill... 971 of the Minority on Mr. Bennet's Motion for reducing the Grant for Army Extraordinaries ........ ...of the Minority on Mr. Hume's Motion for reducing the Grant for such Expenses of a Civil Nature as do not form sgrioba part of the Ordinary Charges of the Civil List ......... 1024 of the Minority on Mr. Bennet's Motion for better securing indoor the Independence of Parliament ........ .......................... 1066 ********-*- of the Minority on Mr. Hume's Motion for reducing the 19que Grant for the Salaries of the Master General, &c. of the 9t of the Minority on Mr. Gipps's Motion for reducing the ......................................... Grant for Ordnance Barrack Expenses ................ 1067 of the Majority on Mr. Hume's Motion respecting the Con- Had so ebauet of Sir Thomas Maitland in the Ionian Islands...... 1149 aquall of the Minority on the Grant to the Duke of Clarence ... 1163 15.62 of the Minority on the Irish Revenue Inquiry Bill ......... 1200 June 18. LIST of the Minority on the Grant to the Duke of Clarence - of the Minority on Mr. Bernal's Motion for omitting the Arrears in the Grant to the Duke of Clarence ..... of the Minority on the Grant to the Duke of Clarence ... 1311 of the Majority and also of the Minority on Mr. Hume's of the Minority on the Grant to the Duke of Clarence ... 1478 THE Parliamentary Debates During the Second Session of the Seventh Parliament of the United Kingdom of Great Britain and Ireland, appointed to meet at Westminster, the Twenty-third Day of January 1821, in the First Year of the Reign of His Majesty King GEORGE the Fourth. HOUSE OF LORDS. Tuesday, April 3, 1821. self taken an active part in many former discussions, he felt that, he should not act candidly towards the House or the noble lord, if he did not declare, that when it came to the second reading, he should feel it his duty to object, as an individual, to the measure. The bill was divided into two parts; the first went to the ROMAN CATHOLIC DISABILITY REMOVAL BILL.] The Roman Catholic Disability Removal bill, was brought from the Commons by sir John Newport, attended by an unusually large number of mem-removal of the political disabilities imposed bers. on the Catholics; the second, to the reThe Earl of Donoughmore, in rising to gulation of their ecclesiastical establishmove that the bill be read a first time, ment. To both those parts, as they now said, he was deeply impressed with a sense stood, he should be under the necessity of the important situation in which he was of objecting. He could not agree to conplaced, by being selected to advocate the fer upon them privileges to the extent proclaims of the Roman Catholics in that posed, and even if his mind were made up House. He had lately had communica- to grant those privileges, he should still tions with some of the first men in the be obliged to object to the clauses relatkingdom on both sides of the question, the ing to the Roman Catholic clergy. Those result of which induced him to believe, enactments appeared to him to take away that in the progress of the bill through all the grace of concession; many of them the House such amendments would be were unjust and many impolitic, and calmade as would remove every material ob-culated to defeat the ends of those by jection that might be entertained on the whom the bill was proposed. part of the Catholics to the measure, without at the same time failing to give those securities which the Protestant establishment in church and state had a right to require. The Earl of Donoughmore said, that with respect to one of the points alluded to by the noble earl, he felt exactly as he did; but he was sorry the noble earl did not agree with him in the general The Earl of Liverpool said, that the bill principle of the bill. If the Roman Cawas itself of the greatest importance, and tholics entertained sentiments opposed to coming, as it did, recommended by the the principles of the constitution, he should House of Commons, it was in every res-object to grant them the proposed relief; pect entitled to their most serious consideration. That consideration he was certain it would receive, and whatever their lordships' decision might be, he trusted, that the question would be discussed with all that moderation which had hitherto characterised its progress. Having himVOL. V. {i} but he was convinced, they were as loyal as the members of any other persuasion. The noble lord alluded, in terms of praise, to the manner in which the other House had met the wishes of the friends of the Catholics, and observed, that if the Catholics were not grateful for the conduct of B the Protestants, who had sacrificed many prejudices in their behalf, they did not deserve the support which they had received. The Lord Chancellor apologised to the House for troubling them in such a stage, even upon so interesting a subject; but, having read the bill, and looked at that part of it which referred to the office which he had the honour to fulfil, he thought it necessary to state, that he could not agree to a measure of such vast alteration. Notwithstanding his great respect for many noble lords from whom he differed, and for the recommendation of the other House, he had no difficulty in stating, that though, on retracing his former opinions, he would not hesitate to change them if he thought they were wrong, he had every reason to conclude, that it would be impossible to introduce any modifications which could induce him to consent to the bill. He would, however, bestow his best reflection on the subject between this and the second reading. The bill was read a first time. HOUSE OF COMMONS. Tuesday, April 3. feelings of any man under the privileges of Parliament. The allusion, in the way in which it was published, was quite undeserved by the respectable gentleman in question, and as certainly unintended by him. He had no motion to make on the subject, being convinced that the mistake arose from inadvertency. CARLISLE ELECTION-REPORT OF PRIVILEGES COMMITTEE.] Mr. Wynn brought up the Report of the Committee of privilege, appointed to inquire into the interference of the military at the late election of Carlisle. The report was read as follows: "That it appears to this committee, that a body of armed soldiers did, on the 24th of May last, in pursuance of a requisition addressed to the commanding officer, and signed by Thomas Lowry, D. D. John Heysham, M. D. and James Foster, esq. justices of peace for the county of Cumberland, come in a military manner, and post themselves near the Town Hall, where the poll for the election of a citizen to serve in this present Parliament for the city of Carlisle was taken, before the freemen there assembled for the said election had quitted the said hall, and before that the said election was finally closed :-That it appears to this committee, that there is no reason whatever to impute to the magistrates, collectively or individually, any corrupt or criminal motive, or any design to overawe or influence the said election, as stated in the petition of the freemen of Carlisle : MR. O'CONNELL.] Mr. Ellis, of Dublin, as soon as the Speaker had taken the chair, rose to correct a mis-statement which had appeared in some of the public papers, respecting what had fallen from him during the debate of last night. He was aware, that the error was quite unintentional, for he was satisfied with the general accuracy, impartiality and abilityThat it appears that the civil power in with which the reports of the proceedings of that House were sent forth to the world. What he was represented to have said of a gentleman, who took an active part in Catholic proceedings in Ireland, was, that he (Mr. O'Connell) was a mushroom orator. Now, he had said no such thing. What he said was this-in allusion to the Catholic aristocracy of Ireland, that as to the antiquity of that gentleman's family pretensions, respectable as they were, when compared with that aristocracy, they were of the mushroom celebrity of a day. He made the allusion, not for the purpose of reflecting on that gentleman's family pretensions, which, he repeated, were respectable, but merely comparatively as to their relation to the aristocracy. He was the more anxious to have the mistake corrected, as nothing could be further from his intentions than to hurt the the city of Carlisle is extremely inefficient; but that your committee are of opinion, that the magistrates did not make use of all those powers with which the law has invested them for the preservation of the public peace :-That it does not appear to this committee, that there was any riot or tumult of that dangerous and uncontrollable magnitude, which alone can excuse the introduction of an armed force during the period of an election, without a previous resort to the utmost exertion of the civil power :-That, under all these circumstances, considering the difficulty of the situation in which the magistrates were placed, the committee are not preprepared to recommend any further proceedings in this case." Mr. Wynn said, that he had never sat in a committee in which more impartiality was manifested, or more anxiety The Chancellor of the Exchequer replied, that he had received a communication from the chamber of commerce in Dublin, intimating, that it would be more agreeable, if the consideration of the subject were deferred for the present session. Sir H. Parnell protested against any further delay. He was convinced that, by a repeal of the duties, the Irish manufacturers would be considerably benefited. He hoped the session would not pass without some step being taken. to get at the whole facts upon which the merits of the inquiry depended. It was impossible not to disapprove of the introduction of the military; but it was proved, that, at the particular time when that took place, the civil power was placed upon a very inadequate footing. The committee was not, under all the circumstances of the case, desirous to recommend any ulterior measure; but they were anxious to mark their sense of the impropriety of the proceeding. The introduction of the military was at all times to be avoided, but especially during an election. -He then moved, that the resolution of the House of the 22nd of December 1741, be read, prohibiting the interference of the military at elections. The said resolution being read, he next moved. The Chancellor of the Exchequer "That this House will always maintain, pledged himself to bring the subject bewith the most jealous attention, the free-fore the House at as early a period as posdom of election, and resent any violation of the same; but that, under the circumstances stated in the report of the committee of privileges, they are content to proceed no further on the matter of the complaint of the freemen of Carlisle." Mr. Canning expressed a wish, if it were resolved that the subject should not be considered in the present session, that it should be understood by all parties, that it would certainly be taken into consideration in the course of the next. sible. Ordered to lie on the table. MALT DUTIES REPEAL BILL.] Mr. Western moved the second reading of this bill. He wished to make a few observations, Mr. Bennet would venture to say, that, chiefly with reference to the duty levied although at most elections political feel-on Scotch barley. Up to the year 1819, ing was necessarily excited, yet there never was an election at which it was less observable than at the election for Carlisle. Certainly, nothing had occurred there which could justify the introduction of the military. He did not know in whose hands the regulation and employment of the civil power of Carlisle were placed; but, in his opinion, something ought to be done for the effectual revision of the system. Mr. James said, he had felt it necessary to bring this subject before the House; but, after the decision of the committee, he was not inclined to press it further. The resolution was agreed to. UNION DUTIES.] Mr. Canning presented a petition from the merchants and traders of Liverpool, praying for a repeal of the Union duties. He was instructed to support the petition on three grounds: First, on the ground, that the duties were productive of an inconsiderable revenue; Secondly, that much inconvenience was sustained in their collection; and lastly, that by their discontinuance great assistance would be rendered to the Irish manufacturers. He wished to know, from the chancellor of the exchequer whether it was his intention speedily to bring the subject before the House. the duty on Scotch barley was 8d. per He |