feelings of old soldiers than pensions | veteran battalions. It was a rule, that would be sit Mr. Bennet asked for what conceivable reason, the establishments of garrisons were kept up at Inverness, Hull, and Stir ling 2 Notwithstanding the splendid names which the noble lord had put at the head of his list, he had no doubt if all the names were given, that there would be found among them some excellent electioneerers. Lord J. Russell wished to know if it was the intention of ministers that lord Chatham should permanently reside at Gibraltar as governor, and if so, whether it was their intention to abolish the situa tion of lieutenant-governor. The Marquis of Londonderry was not prepared to give the noble lord the information he wished to obtain. He could only state, that when the appointment of lord Chatham was made out, it was dis tinctly understood that the noble earl would proceed to Gibraltar to perform the duties of the situation. Mr. Philips contended, that as the duke of Kent had been absent from Gibraltar so many years, and as lord Chatham had hitherto been absent since his appointment, it must be essentially a sinecure. It seemed to him that lord Chatham's going out was planned to take from the office the character which it had hitherto borne; but still he could not but regard it as a sinecure; and the course now taken, struck him as being merely an expedient resorted to by ministers in consequence of their determination not to give up their patronage. Lord Palmerston denied that the situation of governor of Gibraltar was a sineeure. An hon, member had declared, that situations of this description were granted to individuals in order to serve electioneering purposes. He had, however, given a very awkward exemplification, when he alluded to the governorship of Stirling. That post was held by lord Hutchinson, who would scarcely exert his influence for electioneering purposes, at least in favour of ministers. The committee divided: For the Resolation, 87 Against it, 27. On the resolution, "That 115,2561. 17 6d, be granted for defraying the charge of Full Pay for Retired and Unattached officers," Mr. Hume called attention to the manDer in which this charge had been swollen out by the late temporary embodying of officers of veteran battalions, when disem bodied, should receive full pay for life, and the rule had justice as well as liberality in it, when persons, who from length of service had peculiar claims upon the pub. lic, were placed in those regiments. About a year and a half ago ministers thought fit to raise new battalions of these corps which had been since disbanded. They had to officer these battalions, taken officers some from full and some from half-pay, and given them a claim to retire for life on full pay. The increase of expense thus entailed upon the public was 13,8707.; of the officers, 68 were taken from full and 179 from half-pay, and they seemed to have been selected on any other principle than length of service. There were a great many of these officers who had served six, four, and two and a half years,-indeed, all periods except long ones. As ministers had taken this step without the sanction of parliament, he should move to reduce the vote by 13,870, Lord Palmerston said, the officers who were placed on veteran battalions, had indeed the privilege of full-pay when dis embodied, but they forfeited all chance of promotion, and, even after they retired, were liable to be called on again. Officers who had so retired, were called on to serve in the new battalions alluded to, but they had been found too much worn out and broken in constitution to perform any military service. The commander-inchief had selected, not according to length of service, which was an improper criterion, but those who, from severity of service or incapacity, were disabled for more active duty. Some of them, though they had held commissions for a short time, had served long as non-commissioned officers. Mr. Hume said, that the description which the noble lord had given of the persons selected did not generally apply. But as a pledge appeared to have been given them, though most improperly, he should not press his amendment to a divi economy existed in the House, gentle- On the resolution, "That 42,796/be granted for the charge of the in-pensioners of Chelsea-hospital," Colonel Davies said, that the eloquence of angels would be useless against the majority of that House: he would, how ever, do his duty. He thought the duty: which was at present done by six medical, attendants at this hospital, might be amply discharged by two. He also complained of the increased salaries paid to the offi cers of the medical establishment. Lord Palmerston observed, that the agent alluded to had not been appointed by him. The only concern, indeed, which he had had with that officer was, to reduce the per-centage allowed him from 3 to 2. As to the comparison between the half-pay of native and foreign officers, the former could, if in this country, receive Sir C. Long said, that all the medical their half-pay personally without any de-attendants were fully occupied. No one duction for agency; and the agency ob- acquainted with the duty they had to jected to was merely meant to put those perform could think they were overpaida foreign officers upon the same footing. . Colonel Davies observed, that several foreign officers receiving the half-pay of England were serving in the army of other . Mr. Gordon said, he found a charge of: 100l. a year to a magistrate for attesting out-pensioners. The nature of this duty he could not understand. E SU -TARMY ESTIMATES.] The Report of the Committee of Supply was brought up. On the first resolution being read, ao Mr Bennet expressed his intention, and that of his hon. friends, of discontinuing the discussions upon the different items of the estimates. After the ordnance estimates should be gone through, either himself or some hon. friend of his would move a series of resolutions upon the whole amount of our army establishment. It was impossible not to see that the House was tired of the discussions which had taken place, from the scanty attendances, and particularly that of last night. Therefore it was, that they intended to make their objections upon the whole sums, and to hold them up to the public, so that the country might see what votes the House were willing to grant. With all their efforts they had not been able to prevail upon the House to reduce one shilling upon the whole of the estimates. He was confident, however, that the country would never again see such estimates brought down in a time of peace. The Chancellor of the Exchequer said, that the House had agreed to the present estimates without correction or diminution, because they were judged to be such as the existing circumstances of the country required. By such circumstances the estimates were always regulated, and were never considered as fixed and permanent expenditure. As to the resolutions of which the hon. member gave notice, on a general scale, when they were brought forward, would be the time to meet them. On the question, that the resolution respecting the Half Pay be agreed to. Colonal Davies rose to offer some observations on the subject of half-pay, which, he trusted, would meet with due attention in the right quarter. The number of officers on the half-pay of the English and Irish establishments, was 8,616, and the amount annually expended in their VOL. V. maintenance, 765,781 with this long list, and the enormous burden their support was to the country, it would be thought, that it was the policy of government to do justice to those meritorious officers, by filling up whatever commissions were granted in their favour. But the fact was the reverse. From the 1st of Jan. 1816, to the 1st of July, 1820, the total number of new appointments was 1,105, out of which 54 only were made from the halfpay list; all the rest, or the greater part of them, being filled up by favour. The injustice thus done to the public occasioned a great increase of expense, in being obliged to supply the support of the halfpay officer, who might have been removed to full pay, and the public relieved of his maintenance. In order to show the saving which would have been effected to the public, he would show what it would have been if only one-half of the commissions which had been filled up, had been taken from the half-pay. The total of his estimate was 206,353., which was made upon a calculation of the amount of purchase money, which would have been required for life annuities for the number of officers who would, by this principle, have been removed from the half-pay list. With this view of the injustice done to the country and to the individual officers, he wished to give notice of his intention to move for an address to his majesty, which was a copy verbatim of one which passed that House in the year 1740, nem con. "That an humble address be presented to his majesty, that for the present and future ease of his majesty's subjects, he would be graciously pleased to employ in his army such persons as now remain upon halfpay who are still qualified to serve his ma jesty." Lord Palmerston observed, that it was the anxious desire of the commander-inchief, to relieve the half-pay list, and to satisfy the claims of the officers on that list by appointing to full pay from it, as far as was consistent with the interests of the country. From Jan. 1816 to Jan. 1821, there had been 1,105 officers commissioned. Of these, 508 had been without purchase, 114 were cadets from Woolwich, and 80 from the half-pay; the remaining 314 were appointed without purchase. On the average, therefore, 62 commissions had been given away every year, of which 38 were to cadets from the military college and to the half-pay list. If the whole of the yacancies in the army 2 L were to be filled up from the half-pay list, it would close the army against all the various classes of civil life, and put an end to that connexion between the civil and military so essentially necessary, in a constitutional point of view, and so well calculated to diminish the objections which always existed to a standing army. Mr. Hume, after a few prefatory remarks, in which he observed, that the effect of the present system was, that only about an eighth of those who received commissions in the army were previously educated at the college, expressed his wish that the small number of ensigns and cornets from the half-pay placed on full pay, as compared with those who had never been in the army to whom commissions were given, might be stated on the Journals, for which purpose, he would move, as an amendment to the resolution, "That it appears by the returns before the House, that from the 25th Jan. 1816, to the 25th Jan. 1821, there were 1,105 first commissions granted by his royal highness the commander in chief, in regiments of cavalry and infantry of the line, to persons who had never before been in the army; of which 597 were by purchase, and 508 without purchase; that there were, during that period, cornets and ensigns on half-pay, from whom these 508 officers might have been selected, and which appointments would have afforded, at the same time, employment to officers of experience, and a saving to the public of about £.29,464 a-year, or a total charge, if taken at twelve 1 Sir H. Vivian called, the attention of the House to circumstances of great hardship under which officers of the rank of major-generals laboured in consequence of the existing regulations. He knew an instance in which the officer having expended 5,0007. in the purchase of his commis sion, was now placed upon a retired allowance equivalent to the half-pay of a lieut-colonel, and not equal to a life annuity which his money would have purchased. Mr. Huskisson said, that the amendment went directly to stop all promotion in the army, and to recognise the exclusion of all civil ranks of the community. The hon. gentleman was wrong in supposing that it was the general wish of half-pay officers to return to full pay. The deaths amongst the half-pay officers last year were eighty-seven, whilst the whole number of deaths which occurred in the army on active service at home and in every part of the world in the same year, was only sixty-one, which showed the description of the former to be that of worn-out soldiers, not anxious to return to active service. The amendment was negatived; and the resolutions were agreed to. HOUSE OF COMMONS, wol Wednesday, May 2.1ni tug enw PETITION OF JAMES TURNER, COM PLAINING OF HIS IMPRISONMENT.I Lord A. Hamilton rose to present a pe tition from Mr. James Turner, a respect for years purchase, of £.353,568 to the able person, who had resided on the country that in these five years, only 54 cornets and ensigns have been brought on full pay, from the great number of 1,214 cornets and ensigns which now are on the half-pay of the army." General Gascoyne observed, that the hon. member's motion went to exclude all but military men who had already served from entering the ranks of the army; whereas he ought to take into consideration, that after the long contest the country had been engaged in, there must be many meritorious officers whose claims in behalf of their children were entitled to attention. The appointments that had taken place within the last five years were principally of that description, and, generally speaking, those who were upon halfpay at present had no wish to return to full pay. Since 1816, from 250 to 300 annually had retired voluntarily from full to half-pay bowlegge 14 two years in Glasgow, carrying on the trade of a tobacconist. The petitioner complained, that he had been arrested on a charge of high treason, and had never been brought to trial, or received any compensation. The petitioner did not! mean pecuniary compensation, for he was far above accepting any such; but he' complained that his character had not been cleared by an acknowledgment that he was innocent of the charges for which he had suffered. He stated, that on the 9th of April, 1820, he was awoke e in the night-time by officers, who entered his house with a warrant to search for p papers and arms: he was taken immediately to the police-office, and was marched from thence, guarded by a file of soldiers, to the common Bridewell, where he was! locked up in a solitary cell with a stone floor, and denied the use of writing ma 485] MAY 2, 1821. [486 allow. He added, that it was very extraordinary, while the petitioner complained of harsh treatment, a complaint was also made that he was admitted to bail, although the offence with which he stood charged was high treason. The reason why he was not brought to trial was an insufficiency of evidence, like what had happened in many other instances lately in England. If, however, the petitioner would bring the case into a court of law, he would prove that he had sufficient cause for acting as he had done, and would show that his depute had not only done his duty, but that if he had not detained him, he would have been guilty of gross misdemeanor. On the whole, he insisted that the petitioner had been justly arrested, and afterwards. treated with humanity. Pelition of James Turner. For allow terials, as if he had been the worst of felons. On the 14th, he was brought up from bis cell to be re-examined, and was then told that he might be admitted to bail. Now he (lord A. H.) had always understood that high treason was not a bailable offence, and therefore he was at a loss to comprehend why that charge had been alleged against the petitioner, unless it was to afford a pretext for the cruelty with which he was treated. The object of the petitioner in making this appeal to the House was, to clear his character, which he had not been allowed to do by a tria a trial in a court of law. He had therefore to assert that Mr. Turner was innocent of the crime with which he had been charged, and he hoped the lord advocate would feel himself called on to make this admission, which was the only reparation that the petitioner demanded, and to which he was entitled on every principle of justice. If the learned lord did not make a distinct avowal of his innocence, he should trouble the House still farther on the subject. The Lord Advocate could not avoid calling the attention of the House to the time at which this complaint made its appearance: this transaction took place in April 1820, and eleven months had been allowed to pass be before the present petition was put into the hands of the noble lord. During all that time the doors of the courts in Scotland had been open to the petitioner, if he thought himself aggrieved. This House had also been open to him; and if the petitioner had suffered the injury which he alleged, he owed it to himself to bring forward bis demand for redress at an earlier period. As far as regarded himself—and he was the only party responsible-he was not bound to produce the grounds on which the charge of high treason had been made against this individual. But supposing that there were even no grounds at all, he was prepared to contend, that the petitioner should have called for redress in a court of law, where the lord advocate's mouth would have been open. He contended, that he had the best grounds for causing the apprehension of the prisoner, and demed that he was treated with harshness and severity; on the contrary, he was taken to the Bridewell instead of the prison of Glasgow through lenity, as there were then about one hundred culprits in the prison, and in Bridewell he had every accommodation which it was proper to Mr. Maxwell observed, that though he agreed that the case of the petitioner was not so severe as he had first supposed, yet he thought it was more severe than it ought to have been. The reason why the petitioner had not brought his action was, his conviction (whether right or wrong) that he could not obtain justice in a court in Scotland against the lord-advocate. The charges against the whole of the per sons arrested on the occasion alluded to, were similar in their nature to those against the Spa-fields rioters. It turned out that the accused was only guilty of a riot. He was sorry that the learned lord had not taken example by what had occurred on that occasion. Mr. Monteith related the circumstances which had given rise to the apprehension of the petitioner, and observed, that the Bridewell in which he had been confined having been cleared of its usual inmates, was more comfortable than the gaol. Such a variety of information, some good, some bad, was laid before the magistrates, against individuals engaged in the riots in question, that it was surprising that, more had not been apprehended, Mr. Hume had not heard the learned lord say, that the deposition on which the petitioner had been apprehended, was on oath. If it was not, what could warrant such an infringement of the rights of the subject? The Lord Advocate replied, that that was not the practice of the law of Scotland. The public prosecutor proceeded on the information which he received, and was of course responsible for his acts. bert Mr. Hume appealed to the House whe |