and reciprocity of shipping duties. The system of restriction, labouring, as we latter, he thought, was the course they had been for some time, under many and were bound to adopt. Its effect, he was unavoidable difficulties. Our trade and persuaded, would lead to an increase of commerce, it was true, continued to rethe commercial advantages of the coun- vive rapidly; but they required that we try; while, at the same time, it would should adopt every measure by which have a tendency to promote and establish either could be fostered and improved. a better political feeling and confidence What he meant to propose was, that the among the maritime powers, and it would duties and drawbacks should be imposed abate the sources of commercial jealousy. and allowed upon all goods equally, wheIt was high time, in the improved state ther imported or exported in British or of the civilization of the world, to esta foreign vessels; giving the king in counblish more liberal principles; and show, cil a power to declare that such regulathat commerce was not the end, but the tions should extend to all countries inmeans of diffusing comfort and enjoy- clined to act upon a system of reciproment among the nations embarked in its city, but reserving to the same authority pursuit. Those who had the largest trade the power of continuing the present remust necessarily derive the greatest ad- strictions with respect to those powers vantage from a better international regu- who should decline to do so. Some jealation. He had no doubt that when Eng- lousy might perhaps be entertained, at land abandoned her old principle, the vesting in the king in council such a United Netherlands, and the other powers power as that of continuing or removing who were prepared to retaliate, would a tax; but it should be considered, that mutually concur in the new arrangement. here was no power of imposing a tax. He was prepared to hear from the hon. All that the Crown could do in such a member near him (Mr. Robertson) that case, would be to continue a restriction the proposed alteration would be preju- where another power declined to act up. dicial to the British shipping interest. on a system of reciprocity, or to impose In such an observation he could not con- a duty upon vessels belonging to another cur; for he thought, on the contrary, power, in retaliation for a similar duty that the shipping interest of this country imposed by that power. He knew that it had nothing to apprehend from that of intended the king of Prussia to abate his other nations. The committee would re- retaliation when England relaxed her recollect, that when the alteration in the gulations. Indeed he had the best authonavigation laws was projected, similar rity, that of the Prussian minister in this unfavourable anticipations were made by country, for knowing that such was the part of the shipping interest; but these intention. That minister had stated, in anticipations proved in the result entirely his note, the principle of his Prussian unfounded. It was quite time to get rid majesty to be, an admission, "that reciof this retaliatory principle, which, if procal commercial restrictions were recicarried to the extreme of which it was procal nuisances, prejudicial to all nations susceptible, must injure every species of having reciprocal interests, and particutrade. One sort of shipping would be larly to those engaged in extensive comcarrying the trade of one country, and merce and that the policy of Prussia then returning without an equivalent ad- was, to substitute, in the place of reciprovantage, to make way for the counter-cal_prohibitions, reciprocal facilities." vailing regulations of another power, or -The right hon. gentleman concluded else to return in ballast. What would by moving: the country think of the establishment of 1. That it is the opinion of this coma waggon which should convey goods to mittee, that his majesty be authorized, by Birmingham, and afterwards to return order in council, to declare that the imempty? The consumer would, he thought, portation or exportation of merchandise in be little satisfied with such a mode of re- foreign vessels may take place upon paygulating the conveyance of his merchan- ment of the like duties, and with the like dise. The consequence would be, that drawbacks, bounties, and allowances, as there must necessarily be two sets of wag- are payable or granted upon similar gons to do that work which was now per- merchandise when imported or exported formed by one, and that too at a consi- in British vessels from or to countries derable increase of price on the raw ma-in which no other duties are charged, terial. We were not able to carry on a or drawbacks, bounties, and allowances,

granted on the importation or exportation of merchandise in British vessels, than are charged or granted on such merchandise when imported or exported in vessels of such countries.

right hon. gentleman to permit his bill to stand over until the next session, and to have it in the interim printed and circulated among the shipping interests, otherwise those interested would have no opportunity of being heard respecting their property. He also strongly recommended that government should attend to what had fallen from the hon. member for Co

2. "That his majesty may be authorized by order in council, to direct the levying and charging of additional duties of customs, or the withholding of any drawbacks, bounties, or allowances, upon mer-ventry respecting a reduction of the taxes chandise imported or exported into or from the united kingdom, in vessels belonging to any country in which higher duties shall have been levied, or smaller drawbacks, bounties, or allowances, granted upon merchandise when imported into or exported from such country in British vessels, than are levied or granted upon similar merchandise when imported or exported in vessels of such country."

Mr. Ellice said, that agreeing as he did with every thing which had fallen from the right hon. gentleman, it was not his intention to enter into the details of the proposed measure. He rose solely for the purpose of repeating a request which he had made last year. He hoped that while the right hon. gentleman was taking off these restrictions, he would take care so to reduce the duties upon the materials used in ship-building, that the British might be enabled to compete with the foreign ship-owner. Take the article of hemp for instance. A duty of 9. or 107. per ton was perhaps not much when hemp was 961. but now that hemp had fallen to 30%. or 40l. per ton, the duty was He did not mean to say that the shipping of other countries were exempted from this duty, but only that care should be taken to keep the ship owners of this country on an equal footing with those of other countries. He thought also that returns ought to be made to the House of the manner in which this power was exercised by the king in council, and

the same.

Mr. Huskisson. That forms a part of my measure.

Mr. Ellice.-Then I have nothing more to say.

Mr. Sykes said, that when he considered that this bill would go to the root of the naval system of Great Britain, and that under the law as it now stood, that navy had flourished and become great, he could not help recommending the utmost caution, before the proposed alteration was adopted. He hoped that, under the impression of such a feeling, it was not too much to ask the

affecting the shipping interests, and also relax the excise system relating to contraband goods, to which he had adverted on a former night. There was another subject, which he hoped the committee on foreign trade would sift to the bottom: he meant the abominable charges upon British shipping in the shape of consulate duties; which, singularly enough, always decreased as the consul was situated near Great Britain, and increased according to the distance from the mother country.

Mr. Wallace merely rose to express his general concurrence in the resolutions of his right hon. friend. He did not mean to deny, that the system of discriminating duties which this country had adopted had been of advantage, as long as foreign powers were disposed to submit to it; but now, when every country was desirous of affording protection to its own commerce, it was impossible that such a system could continue without producing retaliation. He was perfectly convinced that a system of reciprocity between this and other countries would be found to be the most advantageous that could be pursued. It would not change his opinion of the propriety of his right hon. friend's proposition, to find that it was opposed by the shipping interest; for, in the course of his official experience, he had found, that on every occasion when the shipowners had come forward to oppose a public measure originating with the government, they were universally in the wrong. With respect to what had been said about the necessity of delay, he must observe, that if the measure was desirable at all, the sooner it was adopted the better. If the ship-owners were hostile to the proposed bill, parliament, he had no doubt, would soon be made acquainted with their sentiments; for he had always found them very ready to state their objections to any measure which had been proposed by him. He believed that the fears which had been expressed of the injury likely to result to the mercantile interest from carrying into effect the views of his right hon. friend

with respect to the navy, he had no apprehension whatever. The state of that navy, the facility for building ships, the superiority of this country in that branch of art, the great capital and enterprise of the people, were so many securities, that the navy would not fall into decay. He hoped soon to see Canada deprived of the preference which she enjoyed in the timber trade, and placed, in that respect, upon the same footing as Norway and Sweden.

Mr. T. Wilson rose, not to oppose the resolutions, but to express a hope that if the bill to be introduced should be found to operate injuriously to the shipping interests, government would repeal the duties which affected ship-building.

were perfectly groundless. The shipping of Great Britain was perfectly able to compete with that of any other country. Mr. Robertson opposed the resolutions, on the ground that, if carried into effect, they would increase the distresses under which the shipping interest at present laboured. He would prove, from documents in his hand, that the shipping interest was not in so flourishing a state as had been represented. In the period from 1821 to 1823, there had been a falling off in ship-building to the extent of 161 ships, and 122,000 tons. In the same period, there had also been a decrease in our navigation, to the amount of 732 ships, 129,000 tons, and 8,000 seamen. Such had been the consequence of the system recommended by political economists. The end of that system would be, to drive the trade of Great Britain into the hands of foreign countries. This was the only country in Europe which was abandoning the system of protecting duties. A few years ago, when America obtained some concessions from us, she wished to obtain similar concessions from France; but the French government would not yield a jot, and imposed a light duty on importations from America, who, in her turn, did the same with respect to France. The views entertained by the president of the Board of Trade might be favourable to the mer-of opinion that the duty on timber imcantile interests, but they were certainly prejudicial to ship-owners and builders.

Sir I. Coffin said, that the hon. member who had just sat down, seemed to entertain serious alarms for nothing at all.

Mr. Ricardo said, that the country was much indebted to his right hon. friend (Mr. Huskisson) for the enlightened views he had taken, and the measures he had brought forward, to improve the commerce of the country. Parliament had, at length, begun to find out, that restrictions

on

Mr. Marryat said, he knew it as a fact, that the duties between France and the United States of America were reciprocal. All the British ship-owners complained of labouring under great disadvantage, and the loud complaints of that body were certainly deserving of attention. It was stated, that five-sixths of the carrying trade between Great Britain and America was carried on in American ships. Now, it was not too much for the ship-owners to expect, that all the disadvantages which the British government could remedy would be removed. He was

ported from the Baltic ought to be reduced; and with that exemption he would support the principle of the bill. The inconvenience under which the ship-owners laboured from the present system were striking. It was the duty of this country to act upon liberal principles, and to give way in some instances, in order to preserve the commercial interests of Europe, and of this country in particular.

The resolutions were agreed to.

IRISH TITHES COMPOSITION BILL.] On the order of the day for going into a committee on this bill,

commerce were restrictions, not on other countries, but on ourselves. It certainly was a question of policy whether England should take off the duties without Mr. Dominick Browne strongly objected receiving reciprocal advantage from fo-to the bill, the provisions of which, he reign powers; but, if foreign powers re- contended, were calculated rather to irricognised the same liberal principle, there tate than conciliate the people of Ireland. could be no doubt that the advantage to He thought it would be better not to press England would be double the advantage the bill now, but take time to consider the which any other country could derive from subject; and with that impression on his the regulation. An hon. member had mind, he must oppose the Speaker's said, that it would be to his personal ad- quitting the chair. He should, instead of vantage to second the principles laid down, the House now going into a committee, but that personal benefits ought to be propose, that the further proceedings on sacrificed for the good of the navy. Now, this bill be postponed to this day six VOL. IX.

3 F

months. He had two great objections to the measure in its present shape. The first was to the mode of constituting the vestry, and imposing the tithe. By the bill as it now stood, a majority of the payers of tithe would be taxed without being represented in the vestry. This was one objection which he had to the present measure. The second was, the power given to arbitrators, or assessors, to raise any living one-third of its present value at their discretion. He would rather the tithe system should continue in its present state, than have it thus regulated at the expense of the rights and properties of individuals.

sure, countenanced as it was by every description of persons in Ireland, the rich as well as the poor, had given rise to strong expectations. The duty, therefore, of that House was, to give it every possible consideration. Should they be obliged ultimately to reject it, they would then have the consolation of feeling, that they had done their duty.

Mr. W. Bankes disapproved of the bill as it now stood; but, in deference to the Irish gentlemen, he would not oppose its going into a committee.

Mr. Wetherell repeated his objections to the measure. If it was at all events to be rejected, he thought it was immaterial at what stage the rejection took place. He should therefore oppose going into the committee.

Sir J. Newport was of the same opinion. He thought if they now stopped the bill, it would have an ungracious appearance. They had not yet reached the clauses which were the most objectionable. He was of opinion they should go through the committee, and render the bill as efficient. Mr. Dennis Browne said, he did not as possible; and after it came out of the wish to revive angry recollections, but he committee, every gentleman would be at would say, that the former policy of Eng-full liberty to reject or support it as he land towards Ireland was fraught with in- thought proper. justice and oppression. Ireland had a flourishing woollen manufacture, a branch of trade which, if encouraged, would have gone on progressively advancing, and would of itself have been a source of national prosperity. Yet king William promised his parliament to put down that trade; and his majesty kept his word. The Irish woollen manufacture was destroyed, and a fatal blow was thereby given to the prosperity of Ireland. The growth of tobacco was also prevented; and Ireland was prevented from disposing of her wool to any country but England, and to England only at her own price. The hon. gentleman went on to explain the motives which induced the Irish parliament to take away the agistment tithe. The regulations on this head were most objectionable in principle, and would prove most burthensome in operation. He strongly objected to the power being given to the arbitrators, to advance the claims of clergy at their own discretion. The bill was so objectionable, that he should oppose its proceeding any further at present. He thought the measure should rest where it was till the next session, and that a parliamentary commission should be appointed to inquire into the state of the several parishes in Ireland, and to report their observations to the House.

Mr. Secretary Canning said, it was scarcely possible that a measure of such magnitude and importance, involving so many opposite interests, and exciting so many apprehensions, should not be liable. to some objections. If the hon. and learned gentleman thought the bill incapable of amendment, the most parliamentary course would be, to suffer it to go through the committee with all its defects, with the avowed intention of opposing it when it should come out of the cominittee; but it would be most unusual and unfair to strangle the measure in its present stage. If the bill were thrown out in the present stage, the disquietude out of which it had originated would necessarily be increased, and its rejection would not merely be the loss of a good, but a great practical misfortune.

Colonel Barry did not think the measure could be rendered acceptable by any Mr. Abercromby said, he was one of modification. If the compulsory clause those who felt that some of the provisions of were abandoned, he should have no ob- ' the bill were highly objectionable; still hejection to the measure, being rendered as was most anxious that the measure should unobjectionable as it was capable of being go to a committee. The bill contained rendered; but, if that clause were perseprinciples to which he never could agree; vered in, he should resist going into the and if it were not amended, it would be committee; for he was satisfied that the his painful duty to oppose it. The mea-measure, so far from having a conciliatory

effect, would extend disquietude to every | paying tithes, most of them low and part of Ireland.