I have been teaching at the Florida Law School for 5 years and I have seen substantial changes, and I am proud to say that many of my students are now serving as lawyers, many of my former students are now members of the bar and are serving as lawyers in some of the OEO offices around the State, and the bar has changed.

I believe the outstanding leadership by President Burton Young has not only contributed to the change but also the change perhaps is symptomatic of things which were going on even before Mr. Young became president, which perhaps had not been articulated with the same vigor until he achieved office.

The lawyers have become professionals, not only professional lawyers but professional poverty lawyers, and they have their own understandings or their own standards and their own expertise and their own view of the responsibility that this kind of program must follow.

I believe that they have shown themselves trustworthy and responsible. I don't think these lawyers bring any frivolous lawsuits, but they are bringing suits that are fairly arguable and many times expose areas where justice has discontinued-where injustice has continued for a great length of time, until a test case was brought to give the court the chance to remedy it.

So whatever structure may be developed, I think the Congress may reasonably assume that we have a group of lawyers who have professionalism as poverty lawyers, who have national literature and national conferences, who can be relied upon to provide a basic body which will keep any program running on a responsible basis if political interference is as far as possible removed.

Mr. FORD. To what extent can we find, do you think, Professor, around the country a study similar to the one you are making, or do you know of any others that you could refer us to?

Professor LEVINSON. There are some studies around the country and my reports will contain a bibliography which I of course will submit to the committee as part of my report.

Mr. FORD. Have there been any studies made-I know there have been law review articles, but has anybody made a study of the development of this field of poverty law as a result of this Federal involvement?

Professor LEVINSON. Yes, there have been studies.

There is a publication called Clear and Character Review which is published by a clearinghouse at Northwestern University in Chicago which acts as a depository for information from OEO lawyers around the country.

Also Collins clearinghouse publishes a looseleaf service called the Poverty Law Reporter, which gives current information on statutes, new programs and other developments in the field.

Many law schools hold institutes and conferences.

I believe next month for example the University of Pennsylvania Law School is holding a seminar at which lawyers in private practice, especially the younger lawyers who have more or less a traditional orientation to the law, will be encouraged to take a special course at the Pennsylvania Law School to be oriented to the special types of problems which they are liable to face if they go into practice as lawyers in poverty-type programs.

There are fellowships, one called the Regional Hebrew Fellowship, and the people in that program, who are affectionately known as

Regees, who serve as interns in various OEO offices around the country, serving as lawyers and at the same time carrying out the purposes

of this program.

A study was carried out in the city of Denver, Colorado, under the sponsorship of an OEO grant by Professor Sykes.

They opened up a store front law office, and this study team tried to work out additional problems the clients had, of which the clients were not aware.

This was published.

Mr. FORD. Professor Sykes is responsible I think for the first college catalog in the country that listed a course entitled Poverty Law. Many others are developing it across the country, but they were the first, and part of it was with the University of Denver where they have been deeply involved with the migrant problems, problems of migrant workers and their families.

I think as a matter of fact he is the fellow that traveled with the migrants and picked lettuce for a while and wrote some interesting things about the labor movement.

Do you have any questions?

Mr. MAZZOLI. No, sir. Thank you very much.

Mr. FORD. Professor, I would like to thank you very much and I would appreciate not only having the results of the specific survey and study you are making now, but anything that you or your associates who share your interest in this particular field might wish to give the committee to become part of the record as an input for our ultimate synopsis to the Congress on this program, not only the program as it exists now but the needs as you see them for a change and how you view the role of the Federal Government as a sponsor of such activities in the future.

Professor LEVINSON. Thank you, Mr. Chairman.

We have on the list Mr. Emilio Lopez, leader, Puerto Rican poverty Mr. FORD. Our next witness is Mr. Emilio Lopez, leader, Puerto Rican poverty community.

The address we have listed is 160 Northwest 29th Street, Miami, Fla.

Mr. Lopez, we would like to hear whatever you want to tell us that you think we ought to know about the people you represent.

Tell us first who you are representing and then proceed.

STATEMENT OF EMILIO LOPEZ, LEADER, PUERTO RICAN POVERTY COMMUNITY, MIAMI, FLA.

Mr. LOPEZ. Like I said before, I represent the United Puerto Ricans of Greater Miami. It is an organization that has been in operation for about six months.

This organization came about because we feel that the Puerto Rican community has been left out and the Puerto Ricans-and when I speak of Puerto Ricans, there are the rich, the middle class and the poor, but I am talking about the poor now.

They are always left out of every program.

I know the black community fights for what they have, and if that is what this community wants, probably the Puerto Ricans are getting already uptight for some action.

Every time there is a program they are left out.

Let me give you an example. Take the Legal Services program. The Legal Services program hasn't done a thing for Spanish people over here.

They might have worked with 50 cases or 60 cases in a year, but the real thing is that the Legal Aid-we had a meeting the other day and there was about, all the cases they got this is the Legal Aid, not Legal Services-but the Legal Aid-out of every case they had, one out of three was from Spanish-speaking people, and most of them are my people, and every time they have to go down there they have to take an interpreter down there, otherwise nobody takes care of them.

The same thing with Legal Services, Inc. We have been over there and we haven't—they haven't done a thing about our people.

When they go there, all the time there is no one to understand them, so the excuse is, "We no comprende Espanol, we don't understand Spanish."

We went to the Legal Services office and they told us after a little bit of pressure on Mr. Dixon-and he is here, he knows-we put some pressure on him and finally he is trying to do something for us.

But we wrote to Washington, we wrote to Atlanta, and the Legal Services, they told us they don't have any money. But still the service is provided for everybody else.

Then they told us the community here is supposed to help us.

So we tried to go to the United Fund. We are still fighting with the United Fund.

Everything is just like that. Every time we try to do something they always leave us out.

These (indicating) are the ones that need the Legal Services. The poor black is the one that needs the services.

There is a group right there (indicating) which is trying to get Legal Services and they don't get them, only in certain particular areas. Why?

We want service like anybody else. That is all I have to say.

If you have any questions, ask them.

Mr. FORD. Thank you.

First of all

Mr. LOPEZ. If any of my group wants to say something, they came here and took time from work, and I would like them to be heard. Mr. FORD. All right, we will do that.

Is there anyone here who would like to speak up?

What is your name?

Mrs. HILL. I am Mary Jane Hill.

Mr. FORD. Mrs. Hill, what would you like to say?

Mrs. HILL. I would like to speak on the reality of the program. It is plain as day-let me get it together. I will talk later.

Mr. FORD. All right. Anyone else?

Let me say this: First of all, what you are describing here is a problem of making a decision at the local level. It is not one over which the Congress has chosen to exercise authority, as to where the poverty target areas in Dade County and Greater Miami are.

The problem as I understand it is that the residence patterns aro such here that the bulk of the people for whom you are speaking do not live in the target area.

Mr. LOPEZ. But they need the services. That doesn't make any difference, they need the services.

They are as poor as anybody else. We tried to get a Spanish office for us and nobody has given a hand.

We have been fighting with the Legal Services on that and they tell us they don't have any money.

Mr. FORD. You are saying to us that even if Legal Services tried to spread themselves a little thinner to take care of you, presently they don't have any Spanish-speaking personnel?

Mr. LOPEZ. They have one Spanish-speaking person and he is working all the way down in Perrine where he cannot serve anybody.

He might serve a few down there but the bulk of the Spanish people are not down there; they are right here in the Northwest and in Little Havana.

I am not concerned about that, because they get help from anybody, but I am concerned about my people, my Puerto Rican people don't get help from anybody.

They got plenty of help down there (indicating). The Cubans have programs upon programs to help themselves, but nobody is doing anything for the Puerto Ricans.

The black people have programs after programs, but nobody is doing anything for the Puerto Ricans and it is supposed to be for the poor.

Let it be for the poor. There are poor blacks, poor Puerto Ricans and poor whites.

Mr. FORD. What is your name?

Mr. CRUZ. My name is Ferdinand Cruz.

Mr. FORD. Please come up here where we can hear you, Mr. Cruz. Mr. CRUZ. In Miami sometimes, or most of the time when people talk about a minority group, they mean black.

When they talk about Latin-Americans, they mean Cubans, so the Puerto Ricans are always left out.

Some of these programs don't have any bilingual personnel and they can't serve us, so we are asking for Legal Services to put Spanishspeaking people in, in this case we are asking them for the Puerto Ricans.

Mr. LOPEZ. Not only that, sir; but that goes for any program we have from the Federal Government.

Mr. FORD. I think you should know that Mr. Badillo is in Washington because he is participating in the peace demonstration this weekend, something for which I applaud him. Herman Badillo is a member of the subcommittee, but he couldn't be here. I can assure you that what you put in the record regarding your concern about the Puerto Ricans is not going to fall on deaf ears, because Mr. Badillo, as you know, is the first Puerto Rican to be elected to the Congress, and he certainly has a very, very genuine concern for the special problems of all Spanish-speaking people in this country.

Mr. MAZZOLI. Mr. Lopez, how many Puerto Ricans are there in Miami, Dade County?

Mr. LOPEZ. Every time I go to a place the first thing they ask is that question.

Every time I go any place, the first thing they do is say "How many Puerto Ricans are there?"

Can anybody over here tell me? Nobody can tell because nobody has worked with the Puerto Ricans. They don't know where they are.

Every time there is a program they are left out.

Let me give you an example. Take the Legal Services program. The Legal Services program hasn't done a thing for Spanish people over here.

They might have worked with 50 cases or 60 cases in a year, but the real thing is that the Legal Aid-we had a meeting the othe day and there was about, all the cases they got this is the Legal Aid not Legal Services-but the Legal Aid-out of every case they ha one out of three was from Spanish-speaking people, and most them are my people, and every time they have to go down there th have to take an interpreter down there, otherwise nobody takes ca of them.

The same thing with Legal Services, Inc. We have been over th and we haven't they haven't done a thing about our people.

When they go there, all the time there is no one to understand th so the excuse is, "We no comprende Espanol, we don't underst Spanish."

We went to the Legal Services office and they told us after a littl of pressure on Mr. Dixon-and he is here, he knows-we put pressure on him and finally he is trying to do something for us

But we wrote to Washington, we wrote to Atlanta, and the Services, they told us they don't have any money. But still the s is provided for everybody else.

Then they told us the community here is supposed to help us. So we tried to go to the United Fund. We are still fighting United Fund.

Everything is just like that. Every time we try to do somethi always leave us out.

These (indicating) are the ones that need the Legal Servi poor black is the one that needs the services.

There is a group right there (indicating) which is trying to g Services and they don't get them, only in certain particul Why?

We want service like anybody else. That is all I have to say If you have any questions, ask them.

Mr. FORD. Thank you.

First of all

Mr. LOPEZ. If any of my group wants to say something, here and took time from work, and I would like them to be Mr. FORD. All right, we will do that.

Is there anyone here who would like to speak up?
What is your name?

Mrs. HILL. I am Mary Jane Hill.

Mr. FORD. Mrs. Hill, what would you like to say?

Mrs. HILL. I would like to speak on the reality of the p plain as day-let me get it together. I will talk later. Mr. FORD. All right. Anyone else?

Let me say this: First of all, what you are describing} lem of making a decision at the local level. It is not one Congress has chosen to exercise authority, as to wher target areas in Dade County and Greater Miami are.

The problem as I understand it is that the residen such here that the bulk of the people for whom you are s live in the target area.