of weeks or months to be able to get the military construction approval to fix that airport, so that in fact we would have the kind of forces in the north that will be of concern to Saddam Hussein and his crowd, that will be there to see that what takes place there does not in any way run the risk of having that country fracture, and it is an important thing that had to be done and it had to be done in real time.

It is one thing that seems to me to say to somebody, look, you are starting here and you are going to go there, but we are not going to tell you how to turn every corner and when to slow down and whether or not there will be an accident at the next corner and whether the weather will be bad. Those things are not knowable. So I think a degree of flexibility is realistic and understandable, notwithstanding the importance of Article I of the Constitution.

Mr. OBEY. Mr. Secretary, I think what has just happened here is, I have given a good illustration of how it should not happen, and you have given a good illustration of how perhaps you might need to have something happen. There ought to be some territory in between that we can both agree on so we do not wind up running into either your problems or ours. I would suggest, for instance, that moving from $2 billion to $9 billion in one account, that could build a lot of airfields.

Secretary RUMSFELD. I kind of like Chairman Young's idea of accountability.

Mr. OBEY. So do we. I wish we had seen it last time. Thank you, Mr. Chairman.

Mr. LEWIS. Thank you very much, Mr. Obey. Mr. Hobson.

GUARD AND RESERVE FORCE STRUCTURE

Mr. HOBSON. Gentlemen, you are doing a great job. We always have our things that we have to look at. I am concerned, and I will talk to Dov about it later, about some money that was spent over the last year that I used to be chairman of Military Construction and I never heard about it until it was done. But I do not want to talk about that today.

On forces, I do think, sir, that you need-it would be prudent, and you may be already doing this, to look at the kind of MOSS and AFSCs that you have in the Guard and Reserve, as there may be some balance that needs to be shifted around when a large part of the military police were put into those some years ago, and now those people are being called-up and recalled, and we just need to look at that to make sure you have the right career fields in the right places.

Secretary RUMSFELD. You are exactly right. We have got to fix it. Those Guard and Reserve who are in skills that do not exist on active duty get called up over and over and over again and for longer and longer periods, and we have got to fix it. We have got to see that we have got on active duty all the skills we are likely to be needing, and that we use the Guard and Reserve as the total force concept as support in peak periods rather than on a relatively steady basis.

BUY AMERICA LEGISLATION

Mr. HOBSON. The other thing I would like to talk about a little bit is some of us have a concern the Defense Department is currently buying-I do not want to name countries here but brakes from a company that I have asked about that is going on our airplanes, and they do not buy any airplanes from us. There is a sealant going on the building that you all occupy that is not being made in this country, when there is a competitive, cheaper product being made in this country.

And I am concerned that we do not use taxpayers' dollars to reward, either here or in Iraq, those people who have made this job much more difficult to do and probably more expensive to do than it needed to be. And I hope you all would, Mr. Secretary, take a look at those things and try to do what you can. I know someone will come from the State Department, but I think from this Member's standpoint, I think it is terrible to take taxpayers' dollars for those types of things.

Secretary RUMSFELD. Well, I do not know quite what I would say. There are so many ways that things get acquired through defense funds. In some cases you delegate the responsibility to a contractor, and he has subcontractors, and they make judgments that occur down the line. And I do not know of any way that, for example, every aspect of every contract could be looked at to see those kinds of things, other than by the contractors.

Mr. HOBSON. Then you will see some of us putting more "Buy American" language into the bill, which I do not like to do because it does tie your hands. But if these things are not being looked at to where we have cheaper products here that can be used as the same product, then we are going to have to take oversight into our hands, and we will tie it up and say you have to come back for approval. And I do not want to do that. And I do not want to argue with you about it now but it is something that affects the people that I represent, and I do not like to see it happen.

Secretary RUMSFELD. Dov seems to know something about this. Mr. ZAKHEIM. Yes, I am familiar with the country you are referring to, and here is the problem-without getting into that specific country. It is one thing to say there may be a cheaper alternative in the United States, and those are things we do look out for all the time. When you are dealing with some of the countries that have been more than a little awkward over the past few weeks and quite troublesome, one has to look at the entire context. And that particular country, for instance, has been exceedingly helpful in Afghanistan. And so we have to balance to some extent what people do for us in one context as opposed to what they might not be doing for us with another, and we do not want to throw the baby out with the bath water.

So I would similarly urge some caution, which is a very different issue from where we know that we may have something cheaper at home, in which case we really need to be looking into it, as the Secretary said.

Mr. LEWIS. Thank you, Mr. Hobson.
Mr. Dicks.

AIR SUPERIORITY

Mr. DICKS. Thank you, Mr. Secretary. I want to congratulate you on the job that is being done. I think all these situations are always very difficult. And one thing that I have noted in 1990, 1991, especially during the 1991 phase of the war, was that the use of air power was very, very effective against the Iraqi forces. And I know that you have got a plan and the plan is proceeding. It just seems to me that taking the time to make sure we have used the advantage, the incredible advantage we have in air power, I think was an example of that yesterday when these forces were moving south out of Baghdad and they brought in the B-52s and gave tremendous support to the people on the ground.

As I recall it, many of the divisions in Kuwait were attrited below 50 percent military capability and made the actual ground war much easier. I know you are taking these things into account. I just mention that because I know there is a tendency to want to rush and push and get it done fast, but sometimes you have to do it the right way, and I know you are going to do it the right way.

Secretary RUMSFELD. Thank you. There is no question but that the coalition forces have overwhelming air superiority and air dominance in, must be, 80, 90 percent of the country. And that is a wonderful advantage and the right thing to do and we are using it.

INCREASE IN GENERAL TRANSFER AUTHORITY

Mr. DICKS. Let me ask you, on the increase in transfer authority, Dr. Zakheim, that is going to go from $2 billion to $9 billion?

Mr. ZAKHEIM. We are talking about 22 percent of the fisal year 2003 numbers, so you are approximately correct, yes.

Mr. DICKS. Would you rather have it just appropriated? Would it be better just to give you the money rather than to take items away from the fiscal year 2003 budget? I mean, every nickel we have for defense it seems we should protect. And why not just give you the $7 billion and then you can put it in your fund and then you would have it?

Mr. ZAKHEIM. That presupposes that we are actually going to use all of that authority, and that is something we do not know until we actually look at how we have expensed what we have.

The whole point about the flexibility that the Secretary mentioned is that very often we find ourselves with overages and underages. For instance, sometimes it is a matter of spiraling fuel costs, where clearly we just cannot predict what our costs will be. For that we need to be able to move funds around. It is not a matter of simply adding more money. We cannot even anticipate that. So when we ask for that kind of authority-and remember, we still would be coming back to you, of course, and we would have to have four Committees agreeing to this-it is not a matter of your losing any control over what we are doing. It is just the matter of having the ability to move funds.

This Committee was extremely generous with us and gave us an additional half billion dollars for moving monies around for fuel, and our current supplemental request has another $400 million be

cause fuel prices are going up. So it is the flexibility we are talking about.

Mr. DICKS. Let me ask you this. What is the rationale for requesting the amount needed for sunk costs in the transfer account? Why do we just not pay the bill?

Mr. ZAKHEIM. The answer is simple. We know that those costs are sunk. What we have not received are all the details regarding which particular account. For instance, that is a function, as the Secretary said, of when the commander in Central Command is moving people back and forth. We know who we are sending out, we know we will have to bring them home, so we know what the aggregate cost will be. But are we bringing more Marines home, or more Army home or more Navy home. Are they Active or Reserve? That we do not know yet, so we need the flexibility. We do not want to put money in, for example, to bring Navy folks home, when it turns out it is the Army folks we need to bring home. That just causes reprogramming issues. We have to come back to four committees and address everything else that the Secretary pointed out. Mr. DICKS. So out of the $33 billion, you do not know how any of it was spent?

Mr. ZAKHEIM. No, no, no, we have a sense.

Mr. DICKS. There ought to be some bills that have accrued. If you spent the $33 billion, should not some of those bills be there that you could just pay?

Mr. ZAKHEIM. Remember the Secretary said committed; we are committed. We know that we will have a commitment of $30.3 billion. Of the actual expenses, I do not believe we have much yet in hand, although the estimates we are giving you are obviously far more accurate than an estimate of the rest of the amount, which still depends on the fortunes of war.

Secretary RUMSFELD. The answer to your question has to be yes, that there are some things that are known. For example, we know that people have been mobilized and what we are paying them, and we know which service they are in. So there is a small portion of the total that is knowable today. But Dov's point is particularly valid, that you do not know what the combatant commander is going to want to move here or there, or demobilize, or when.

Mr. LEWIS. Mr. Dicks, as you know, the Secretary has to leave. Mr. DICKS. Of course. I am done, Mr. Chairman.

Mr. LEWIS. By way of making a point as I pass the gavel on one more time, this is a supplemental for the fiscal year 2003 appropriations process, so there is a time certain here that this is controlled by the flexibility involves the balance of this fiscal year at the max, and between now and then the 2004 will be ahead of us. So there will be plenty of time for accountability as well as our responsibilities.

Mr. Bonilla.

COALITION SUPPORT

Mr. BONILLA. Thank you, Mr. Chairman.

Mr. Secretary, as a former House Member, you know that we all hear directly from our people every day about whatever the current events are. Obviously this war is the biggest event going on now. All of you should know clearly that the people are not just sup

porting you out there, they are cheering for you. They are very proud of what you all have accomplished thus far, and are anticipating a resounding victory before too long. So they see through sometimes the smokescreens and the talking heads on TV, and the people realize that a handful of kooks in the big cities on each coast that are stopping traffic for whatever reasons are not indicative of what the overwhelming majority of Americans are feeling out there. So I hope you all know that and hear that on a regular basis, because it is true and it is happening.

My only question, Mr. Secretary, relates to what the responsibility is of some of our "allies" in what they are doing to help pay for some of the these military costs. Everything from sharing the cost of the current war to supplementing the Defense Emergency Response Fund involving the Global War on Terrorism. I mean, obviously, we are the greatest Nation on Earth, and the richest, and we have got to help pay these bills for fighting terrorism all over the world. But my goodness, do you see any light at the end of the tunnel for some of these countries to belly up to the bar and help pay some of these bills to not just protect us but to protect themselves?

Secretary RUMSFELD. We do. We have a large and growing coalition of countries. They are supplying ships, they are supplying aircraft, they are supplying medical units. They are doing things, and we are deeply appreciative to all of those countries. It is a sizable group, and I know that Dr. Zakheim can provide some specific details if it would be helpful.

I must say I agree with you completely. The American people have a very good center of gravity and an inner gyroscope that balances them. And despite the overwhelming volume of information about what is going on in Iraq and these slices of drama, they get it in my view. They understand it. And they can understand what we are doing is important and that it is important that those weapons of mass destruction be dealt with and that that regime be replaced, and they have got the patience and the understanding to support what is going on. And I thank you for that.

Mr. BONILLA. Yes, sir. Again, just to reiterate the concerns that I think some of us have for some of our allies pulling their weight out there in terms of paying some of these bills. I know, as you said, a lot of them are doing a lot, but in the view of many of us they are they are not doing enough because we are putting our people out there. Now we are putting our money out there. We are glad to do it, but it is amazing how some of the folks around the world do not see the light.

Secretary RUMSFELD. There are 52,000 coalition forces in Iraq, and that is a lot. And there are Special Operations forces. There are ships that are at sea that are supporting maritime interdiction and doing mineclearing. There is a British ship, the Sir Galahad, that is bringing food and humanitarian supplies into that port in the south part. There is a lot happening.

Mr. BONILLA. Thank you very much. Keep up the good work, all of you.

Secretary RUMSFELD. Thank you very much.