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General EBERHART. Yes, sir. And again, I don't want to say I am surprised by it. I am pleased that it is working as well as it does. When we do these various exercises, war games, they are in Colorado Springs and other places, members of their staff, members of their individual organizations that comprise the Office of the Department of Homeland Security, all participate. So we are all sitting around a table much like this, working our way through those various scenarios, some of which, as I said, are unthinkable, but we have to think about them.

Mr. YOUNG. General, I for one feel very confident with you in that position. And I know you have a tremendous staff of officers and enlisted who work with you. And I think that my friend, Jerry Lewis, will tell you that we stand ready to respond to your needs, whatever they are, because your needs are the Nation's needs.

And Mr. Chairman I thank you very much for the good work that you do in getting us to the point of being able to move these defense related appropriations bills and you have been a strong leader and thank you very much.

Mr. LEWIS. Thank you, Mr. Chairman. I know you are pushed schedule-wise, so I appreciate you being with us.

I watched my friend from Pennsylvania, Jack Murtha, mulling over in great depth these charts that you were presenting, so I am sure he is full of questions.

INTELLIGENCE

Mr. MURTHA. I don't understand this relationship between you and Homeland Defense, you report to the Secretary of Defense, you have no troops to speak of, you have administrative people. Tell me the exact relationship between you and Homeland, who decides what the threat is, who orders you to do something, how does that work?

General EBERHART. Sir, we start from the intelligence reports in the morning, and we all receive them first thing every morning. Mr. MURTHA. The intelligence you get from?

General EBERHART. I get the intelligence from a variety of sources, sir, but it is fused by our Intelligence Center in Colorado Springs. When I go into the intelligence briefing every morning it is different from what we grew up with in terms of intelligence, it's not just the classical military intelligence from service sources or from national intelligence agencies.

The Intelligence I get will also be gleaned from law enforcement agencies. I have an FBI agent that sits there in the intelligence brief and makes sure I get any information that might be relevant for homeland security and homeland defense. We have FAA representatives, we have National Security Agency, NSA reps, the list goes on and on.

So we are trying to get all that intelligence, in some cases, not classical intelligence, it is information, but when fused properly as the Secretary has said, allows us to connect the dots and get a picture that we act on. So let's take a situation where we decide that there is a credible threat against the Department of Energy facilities across the Nation. Then the next thing we do is we start working with the FBI and the Department of Energy to see if they need help securing those facilities.

RELATIONSHIP WITH DEPARTMENT OF HOMELAND SECURITY

Mr. MURTHA. Go back and tell me the relationship between the Department of Homeland Defense and yourself. For instance, what do they do?

General EBERHART. The Department of Homeland Security, sir? Mr. MURTHA. Yes. What is their job?

General EBERHART. Sir, they have just stood up, but they are doing the same thing. They are doing exactly the same thing. But I am looking at it through the eyes of what might I need to provide from a military perspective. They are looking at it through the eyes of what they are going to do with law enforcement agencies and other agencies out there that are part of their Department. What I am trying to anticipate is what we can bring to the fight, what solution set we can provide with military force.

Mr. MURTHA. So you are looking at missile defense; you are not looking at containers that come into the country in and a danger that might be in those containers?

General EBERHART. I do look at that, sir. For example, I track every high interest vessel that is approaching our shores. I track that every day. I look and make sure that the Coast Guard is working that problem. That is their issue, they are the lead. I look at what might they need from us.

Mr. MURTHA. Does the Coast Guard work for you or Homeland Security?

General EBERHART. They work for Homeland Security, but they work like this with me. We cooperate together in our harbors and off our shores. We will have Naval ships with Coast Guard law enforcement detachments on those Naval ships. So it is a partnership that predates NORTHCOM and is working exceedingly well. I spent last week with the Coast Guard. I went and visited the Coast Guard on the West Coast, and I went out to Hawaii to visit the Coast Guard. When I have a commander's conference, the two 3star Coast Guard commanders east and west coast come to those conferences. If you look at our wiring diagram, you see the Coast Guard into our headquarters with a dotted line.

WEAPONS OF MASS DESTRUCTION-CIVIL SUPPORT TEAMS

Mr. MURTHA. I guess what I don't understand, we set up 26 or 27 biological chemical warfare response teams in the National Guard all over the country. There are two teams, one Army and one Marine Corps. They don't fall into your jurisdiction normally, but you can ask for them to be attached to you if you had that kind of a threat that happens? For instance, the Olympics, would you run the Olympic security then in those cases?

General EBERHART. Yes, sir. Yes, sir, I would. And every day I track those Civil Support teams (CST) and the Chemical Biological Incident Response Force (CBIRF) teams, I know their status, I know which teams are on gold alert, which teams are on less alert. We moved CST teams during the Columbia tragedy. We used those CST teams very effectively to support FEMA and NASA, we tracked that movement. We know that we can either move them under a Title 32 status or Title 10 status. Frankly it doesn't make any difference to me as long as we get the job done.

Mr. MURTHA. So the President doesn't go to Homeland Security and Homeland Security come to you, the President goes to the Secretary of Defense and bypasses Homeland Security Secretary in this case.

General EBERHART. What would happen, sir, is that if we detected a threat that would normally be worked by law enforcement or another lead Federal agency, but we had something to offer, we would be working with them off line. They would go to Homeland Security, Homeland Security would go to the President and say we need help, and we think the military can help us with these kinds of things. The President would say you are right, he would call the Secretary of Defense and say go help them. And then I would be the person.

COUNTERDRUG ACTIVITIES

Mr. MURTHA. Let's take something that is a little bit different, drugs for instance, that are such a threat to this country. You wouldn't play in this unless what happens?

General EBERHART. Sir, there are two ways I would play in counternarcotics. One is that Joint Task Force 6 in El Paso works for us. So our support for counternarcotics is directed through NORTHCOM. Day in and day out we will provide support to the Border Patrol, to Customs, to others as they do the counternarcotics mission, not only along our southern border with Mexico. We will also do it inside States with intelligence analysts that we have in many States working with your State drug enforcement folks, and we also do it along the northern border.

The other way we can get involved is when we have reason to believe that the Border Patrol is not going to be able to deal with a specific threat. In that case, we would reinforce the Border Patrol, but we would do that in accordance with the laws of the land, posse comitatus, et cetera. We provide additional capability and capacity for the Border Patrol, Customs, and Coast Guard.

Mr. MURTHA. Your troops would support the law enforcement officials, whether it is FBI or whoever it is trying to interdict the drugs coming in. Now do you have direct responsibility for counternarcotics effort in the United States now versus the FBI?

General EBERHART. No, sir. I just have what active duty military support we provide under Northern Command.

Mr. MURTHA. What is the threat right now?

General EBERHART. Sir, I believe the threat is as high as it ever has been. If you will allow me to go off course just a second here, I believe that what we need to do is start looking at the borders in terms of homeland security/homeland defense, a broader mission, if you will. Then we look at these subsets as part of that. So illegal aliens, black marketing, drug trafficking are all important. We shouldn't pull back the throttle in terms of our effort there. But I think we need to look at it in terms of homeland security. Because I don't know how you stop that person who is coming across the border and say, "Are you a narco guy, are you a terrorist or are you just coming to this Nation because you want to live here and work here and make a contribution?" Very difficult, difficult issue.

Mr. MURTHA. Thank you, Mr. Chairman.

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Mr. LEWIS. Thank you, Mr. Murtha.
Mr. Hobson.

AREA OF RESPONSIBILITY

Mr. HOBSON. General, nice to see you. I saw you in the hallway yesterday as I was walking over. I would like to take a brief moment to question how this all came about. I see that Puerto Rico is in your command, Hawaii is not. I guess Guantanamo is still in SOUTHCOM. How do the numbers, how does that cause you to interact, say, with-is there a difference in the way you would treat something as it relates to Hawaii as opposed to Puerto Rico? General EBERHART. Sir, it is based on the geographic lines of the area of responsibility. Hawaii is in Pacific Command, so Pacific Command takes care of Hawaii. They are in charge of homeland defense of Hawaii, Guam and the protectorates in the Western Pacific. Pacific Command is in charge of providing support to civil authorities in Hawaii. If Pacific Command needed help, then it would be the classic supporting relationship, just like Pacific Command helps us with forces, we would look for ways to support Pacific Command. But the reason Hawaii is not in our area of responsibility is it is in Pacific Command's, Admiral Fargo's area of responsibility.

As you look down to the south, that is not quite as clear as you pointed out. Our area of responsibility was drawn to make sure that we picked up the Commonwealth of Puerto Rico and the U.S. Virgin Islands. So it was important that someone was providing for the defense and civil support activities down there, and the Secretary does not want a seam there between Southern Command and Northern Command. So that is why Puerto Rico and the U.S. Virgin Islands are part of U.S. Northcom's AOR.

Cuba is in our area of responsibility in terms of protecting against threats from Cuba. However, Guantanamo will remain with Southern Command because they have run that operation for years. They know how to run that operation. Those relationships are established. If we ever got to a mil-to-mil relationship with Cuba, that would be with Southern Command, because Cuba is more aligned with Central and South America than it is with North America. So that is why those lines were drawn that way, sir.

Mr. HOBSON. Okay. Thank you, General.

Mr. LEWIS. Mr. Dicks.

WEAPONS OF MASS DESTRUCTION-CIVIL SUPPORT TEAMS

Mr. DICKS. Thank you, Mr. Chairman. And I want to congratulate General Eberhart for standing up Northern Command and by getting off to a very quick start, I believe. And you know, you and I had a chance to talk and I am pleased to see in your presentation this whole concept of deter, prevent, and protect. Because as you and I talked about, I see this as such a change in that, for the first time we are really talking about, as you said, the crown jewel, the United States of America, and how we are going to protect it. And you know we have thought about this in the past in terms of traditional law enforcement, the Coast Guard, but it has been-it was not a coordinated effort with a strategy and plan.

I think what the Administration is doing here is quite good. I talked to the Customs Service the other day, the Coast Guard on how they are dealing with containers. It is starting to come together. And there is a role for the military here.

And I think, you know, one of the things that is important is the idea of not only preventing these things from happening, and that means deterrence and having these people realize that there is a possible use of military force against them if they, in fact, are going to try to conduct a terrorist attack against the United States. I think you are doing a great job. You and I talked about some of these forces, I think you know, the question of Civil Support Teams. Now, are those there is supposed to be one in every State. But what is the status of the Civil Support Teams? Can you tell us what they do a little bit?

General EBERHART. Sir, right now we have resourced 32 Civil Support Teams. 27 of those have been certified, five are remaining to be certified as you alluded to, Mr. Murtha.

And they will be certified.

Last year's bill directed the Department to add an additional 23 Civil Support Teams that actually take us to 55. One for each of the 54 States and territories. California, because of its geography, has two. So that is why it is 55 as opposed to the 54. As we said, the rub there is that those teams were authorized but not appropriated last year. The Department is trying to come to grips with how they work that issue. If they work that in a supplemental, they come back to you.

Mr. DICKS. Whose budget is that in? That is not this Committee is it? Is it the Homeland Security Committee?

General EBERHART. It would have been in this Committee the last year. Now this year I don't know if they have moved it. But last year it would have been this Committee. It would have been probably through the National Guard, but I am not sure, sir. But can find that out for you. Obviously, and you know, I will be very straightforward here, I am a big fan of the CST teams.

I have seen them in action. I think if you go out, which many of you have, and visit your CST teams, they are your bridge between your local responders and everyone else. And they help you in terms of interoperability, standardization, cross-tell, benchmarking from State-to-State, county to county, it goes on and

on.

I personally think we need to look at taking the CST teams to the next level. Because right now, as valuable as they are, essentially what they can do is come out and tell you you are sick. They can't do a lot about it. They can tell you where to go to get well and who has to fix you, but we need to give them more capability to fix you.

My view is you take the CST teams, you make them more like the CBIRF. We probably can't afford 55 of those, but you can do them by region or population centers or something here.

Mr. DICKS. What was that unit called?

General EBERHART. It is the Chemical Biological Incident Response Force. General Krulak stood that up about 1995 or 1996, in my view, well ahead of the time. It was the right thing to do. And we moved that to Indian Head. And they are the people who were

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